Drugs debate
Somewhat of a heated debate for some, what are your opinions on the drug culture and what drugs you think are right and wrong. Personally, I am against the act of arrest for mere recreational drug use. I've been addicted to heroin for a time and I know what it feels like to deal with an addiction. These people aren't the criminals, arresting them won't make it better. Dealing drugs is something that the ;aw should be taking in account for, I do believe.

Death rocker, one of the best films on the subject is Traffic. The so-called "war on drugs" is itself an immoral and unconstitutional effort. Drugs were originally banned WAY back in the Progressive era about the same time that alcohol prohibition came into effect. The people and the government soon learned that mistake and repealed it. You see, when they banned alcohol, crime escalated over 70% and we saw the rise of such mafia and black market figures as Al Capone. All the ban did was overcrowd prisons, put power into the hands of murders, and victimize the populace. Those who wanted to drink still drank, they just had to resort to the Black Market, it's the exact same story with drugs and guns - which is why neither should be banned. When Prohibition was finally repealed, those numbers slipped almost right back to normal and crime dropped dramatically as the power of the black market and crime syndicates specializing in alcohol trade vanished. However the drug ban was left alone and not even thought about for a long time, until the late 50s and the 60s. The sole purpose of law is to protect citizens from being harmed by other citizens. Anything that is self-destructive does not technically constitute the passing of a law against it, such as the retarded ban on suicide. The government is not a mother figure that should be forcing you to live a healthy life. The Supreme Court simply does not have the authority to regulate what is moral and what is not, they are not god, though they are playing god. They judge what is lawful and what is constitutional. The reason so many people are victimized by the drug trade is because of the ban itself. Legislation has been put on the table of Congress about the repeal several times, but too many politicians, especially in the Justice department, benefit too much by making deals (for both money and influence) with drug overlords and from the Triangular Drug trade - from South-East Asia to South America to North America. The worst part about drugs, in my opinion, is the violence and manipulation associated with its trade, it makes the addictions that much worse. If you relieve the ban, all the power that belongs to the drug cartels will diminish and prisons will be relieved of a lot of the overcrowding pressures occurring today. I think instead, drugs should be taxed and regulated. Addicts should be disclosed to rehabilitation, not jail. Who's going to come forward about a drug problem if they risk going to prison? The ban makes life even harder for addicts to step forward and receive the help they need. Besides, in prison, the price of drugs only gets higher. Do you really think prison stops it? I would strongly push for a lift on the overall drug ban itself and instead use economics with the market to diminish its influence. It could easily be done, but no one is willing to do it with how comfortable our legislature sits on the benefits.

FF you make a slew of good points there. I can't agree anymore. Drugs being taxed sounds like a very good idea. More addicts will be able to live more healthy and normal lives if drug use were legal. And, like you said, less lives would be ruined by drugs, let alone taken away. I simply don't understand why the US government doesn't get this through their thick heads. It's disrespectful and fucking disgusting to the US citizens in my view. Besides, getting high is just something that certain people enjoy doing, whether it be heroin or something as harmless as marijuana. I know I enjoy it, even if it does cause negative effects in the long run, which is how addiction starts. I completely agree in taxing all drugs (except for meth...meth should be cracked down upon under all circumstances IMO) for legal use, or at least not arresting people for merely using drugs in the first place. It's fucking stupid and only makes their drug problem worse. At least have the sense to send them to fucking rehab. Oh, and I never knew that there was a suicide ban. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. This country really has hit an all-time low. Is Canada anything like this at all?

I don't know about Canada. All I know about Canada is that they have free healthcare up there and it results in really long waiting lists for major surgeries, so a lot of Canadians end up coming to the US to get proper treatment. Maybe Todd or Chairshot could answer on how it is in Canada.

I'm a bit too tired to go into an all-out discussion, but I'll say that I think it is ridiculous to have a drug ban. However, there are certain drugs that, if they were available over-the-counter, people could use them to harm others. Namely the date-rape drugs. Yes, they are in use now, and although I can't back it up with statistics to prove that a spike in those incidents would occur, I think it would be one of many arguments against legalized drugs that would hold water. Pot, though, should totally be legal.

I wouldn't classify date rape drugs as the drugs I think deathrocker was referring to. People don't really want to use date drug themselves or abuse it on themselves. Like you said, they use it on others. I think it is a different type of substance and a different situation, kind of like truth serum.

I happen to largely disagree with what you have said about laws against drugs being immoral. You act as if recreational drug use affects only the user. As someone whose life has been profoundly affected by the drug use of those around them, I have to say that I don't find drugs harmless in any way. I've seen them ruin the lives of many people. I do not know my father because he was so wrapped up in drugs that he wasn't interested in anything else. He has spent his life in and out of jail and rehab. I haven't seen him in seven years and the most recent picture I have is from his most recent stint in rehab. My aunt Vicky has been disowned from the family, largely because the drugs that she has done since her early teens have made it to where nothing else matters. She's willing to steal from and lie about her own family in order to score. One of my friends in high school committed suicide because he got into the drug scene really heavily and it screwed up his life. It ruined his relationships because he had no idea where he had been the night before or what he had been doing, he became depressed, and he killed himself. I myself have never tried anything beyond marijuana because I have seen what it can do to the lives of those around me, but I do know how many of the drugs affect the body chemically, and it is in no way harmless. I believe that there should be more of an emphasis on drug rehabilitation and medical intervention, but I do not in any way believe that drugs should be made legal. Legalizing drugs would only make them more easily distributed, and I don't see how legalizing drugs would benefit any portion of society except to offer a temporary high that inevitably crashes to rock-bottom. I would like to point out that I don't live in the best area. I see people strung out or looking to score on a regular basis, especially riding public transportation. And there's no denying that people are very easily addicted to drugs, I think that's one of the downfalls is that everyone believes that they have the willpower, that others may get addicted but not them. It's just not true. Drug withdrawals and side-affects can make people do anything. They will board the bus screaming that they have bugs on them and to get them off laying down and rolling and running back and forth, they will kill for the twenty in your pocket, and they will give up all pride to do whatever they have to do. I don't think that a substance that can take away who you are and turn you into the basest criminal should become commonplace in society. This applies to cocaine, meth, ecstasy, acid, and many other popular drugs on the market. They affect the body in terrible ways, but it doesn't just affect the individual doing them. It is far more widespread of an influence than that.

But alcohol is legal, and alcoholism can cause the same thing.

The fact of the matter is that drugs like Pot, Heorin, Amphetamine, Xtaci etc will not be decriminalised as politicians, being the windbags that there are, LOVE to blow hard & long about how they "gonna get tough on drugs" and make people into criminals. FF raised a number of great points about drugs and the sad history of political shame and lies that accompanies it. The whole "war on drugs" is a farce. Its a distraction device, set up to marginalise and demonise a small section of society so that the powers that be can continue to pull the strings and look lawful & virtuous while doing so. Yes many substances are addictive but that can be managed thru education and rehab centres. A damm good example of how de-criminalising a drug can be is Marijuana in California. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7439610.stm That article pretty much sums up a lot of the problems associated with this particular drug. The dealers have all but disapeared, fewer arrests and convictions are being made and the government makes a tidy widfall from taxes on the sales of pot at these medical centres. This is the model we need to follow albiet the medical checks seem to need a bit of tightening up.

Sorry if I ramble, it's really late at night. Tribyen, I also don't live in a great area and even many of my old childhood friends from North Texas are pretty much just druggies now. There are literally meth labs lining certain neighborhoods out here and there is a very successful production and distribution of marijuana, cocaine, amphetamines, etc. This area is very much a gate from the distribution from Mexico up into the heartland of America. Your state, California, has the exact same issue. What I'm arguing for, though, is not about making things "easier", but making things better for the abuser. Right now you can go on the street and get some good shit for maybe $30. If you repeal the ban and tax it, I guarantee the prices will be at the lowest around $100 at the cheapest. That's the idea, to work economics. Also, it will be taking away the deterrent from seeking help before things get too serious and actually giving incentives. The drug ban makes things worse for people and the argument the that ban makes is a deterrent is simply not practical. Sending someone to prison for being in possession or for abusing is just not moral or constitutional. Our original laws were only set in place for the protection of the individual and his rights from others as well as the government. Laws such as this are an unnecessary contradiction of it, though I do agree that in some cases laws such as this are needed. However, laws set in place to protect one from one's self are not always valid and that's when civil liberties come into play. The truth is, drugs are out there and we live in a painful world. Some people will resort to very bad ways of dealing with the pain in their lives, some resort to drugs, some beat their children, some murder. Hell, we've all been driven to the edge at some point in our lives. We can't control everything and we should not be constantly looking to the government to solve all of society's problems. We'll be disappointed by its efforts. Granted, I don't think the government should be entirely isolated from society, but it shouldn't be the sole arbitrator of all its conflicts. The so-called "war on drugs" is merely another facade of using media and political maneuvers to achieve the ends of certain political action groups. It seems that anytime we are presented with a challenge in this country, we declare war on it. The war on drugs, the war on fat, the war on crime, the war on terrorism, etc. You'd think that the American people would realize how strung out we really are. I would push for less government intervention in our daily lives, only just the sweet amount.

Oh yes, pot should definitely be legal, above all else. If not all drugs, then at least pot. It will effectively take away the "gateway drug" label, and could even decrease the amount of hard drug addicts in the country. Tribyen, I know what it feels like to see family members fall apart due to drugs. It's not a pretty sight, but if anything, we need to give them the most support we can, and legalizing what they're doing can help greatly. Drug addicts can't be looked down upon as "losers" or "the scum of society." If we legalize it, it can give the casual users more freedom, and the people who are addicted should find it easier to live their lives.

Well, here's my two cents... Most of you know me as a smart-ass who shows up every great once in a while, posts something stupid, and then disappears....like the wind. I was actually banned from the old board after a flame over illegal immigration--I basically said "let anyone who wants in, in", much to the chagrin of the board. Especially the guys from Texas. :wink: Anyways, one of the things you don't know about me is that I'm a former US Marine, and a former Deputy Sheriff. I did most of my Sheriff's career as a Jail Deputy...but did my last year and a half as a Narcotics Officer. And, I'm here to tell you--ALL drugs are bad. Some are admittedly worse than others....but all are for shit. Alcohol and Mary Jane included...as (even if the pro-drug types don't want to admit it) they're gateway drugs--meaning that they often lead to bigger and badder things. Now, we tried to get rid of booze back in the 20s, and look where that got us. Like tobacco, t's just too much a part of our culture for us to give up. As much as I'd like to see it go away, it never will. As for other types of drugs....alls I can say is that they're bad news, sports fans. Stay away from them. Trust me--you'll be better off. And, anybody who thinks otherwise can kiss my ass. This forum seems populated by "normal" people. People who live "normal" lives, who don't see the blood and shit that illegal drugs produce on a daily basis. Has anyone here ever seen a real, live, honest to goodness crack baby? I have. I've seen gaggles of them. That baby will literally scream its lungs out for the first nine months of its life because it's going through cocaine withdrawl. Durring its first year on God's "good" Earth, it doesn't develop the way normal babies do--it won't learn to crawl, or walk, or talk on time because it's got deformities. Mental deformities. Physical deformities. It's got brain damage, and a lowered IQ...often dyslexia, and autism. Pick your fuck-up. Eventually, these kids go to school, but they have trouble learning. Like most crack kids, they're sociopaths--liars, and they exhibit mood swings...often violent, which get them in trouble with the law even at an early age. Because of their personality disorders, most face the prospect of going through life completely alone. Now...it's almost 2010. There have been three...four...maybe five GENERATIONS of these kids born in the United States alone. Generations that were destroyed in the womb even before they were born. Because of that shit. Remember that.

Tannerboyle, for your reasons posted, it's exactly why the war on drugs must end. We need to start focusing on getting people off the drug than throwing them in jail, unless they've harmed someone else of course. If you work economics with it, you can take out some of the roots that continue both the supply and demand of it. But we're doing right now is a first class ticket to no where and we're running in circles while the drug cartels laugh at us.

I don't see how legalizing drugs would make them more expensive. in my experience, the more illicit the object the more expensive it is. and also, as is obviously the case with many of the people in my neighborhood, people will rob, steal and sell whatever they can in order to get the money for drugs. I don't see how legalizing them will change that. it seems like legalizing drugs would just take any power to get people to stop using them out of everyone's hands.