Karadzic
Not going any where for a while?

Very amusing :D

:?: :?: :?:

Don't get it..

For the benefit of DR & FF, the man in the picture is a wanted Serbian war criminal who has just been caught and is now cooling his heels in The Hague in Holland where he will be tried for crimes against humanity for his part in the Bosnian war from 1993-97. GH was making a wry comment about him not going anywhere so why not have a Snickers Bar? I think its a commercial Snickers did once.

Thumbs up for Talwyn. Nice to see that someone follows the news these days. For DR and FF: I understand that you don't know who this man is, even more because the both of you are very young and living in another continent. So no hard feelings there, buddies :wink: I'll give you some more background: In the nineties, Yugoslavia broke up in several sections. Croatia, Bosnia Herzigovina, Serbia were formed. Now, in the places were there was a majority of either group, civilians started to throw the others gropus out. Take in consideration that every fraction had their hands on weaponry. The Serbians had the heavy weapons taken from the military complexes across the land. Milosevic was the leader of the Serbians, Karadzic was the leader of the self-acclaimed state of Serpska. He is responsable for the bombing of Sarajevo, killing hundreds of civillians. Furthermore, his soldiers, under general Mladic, took several 'safe havens'. One of these havens was protected by Dutchbat, Dutch soldiers. Nato never did much to prevent the fall of these havens, even with air-surpremacy! A black day for the Treaty. In the days that Srebenica did fall, hundreds of busses (this proves the campagn had been thought through) took away the women and children. 7000 Muslim men are still missing to this day. Karadzic took refuge and did hide away for years in Serbia. One day he was ratted out (good thing!) and was arrested. He faces the same trials as Milosevic. Many former Yugoslavians have been arrested and are facing years imprisonment. The hunt is still on for Mladic. -The defence of 'safe havens' was a Nato-task. They never took their task up and the Dutch were finding themselves outgunned by an agressive enemy. Later, a Nato-spokesmen said that the 'safe havens' were impossible to defend. I find that hard to believe! Remember that West-Berlin (laying deep in the Warshaw-pact) could have been easily taken by the Soviets. But the simple threat of Nato counterstrikes kept the Soviets at bay for more than 40 years. The same could have been for the 'safe havens'. The Serbian army would never be able to withstand Nato firepower and the loss of an army-corps would mean the collapse of Serpksa. Nato did nothing and 7000 men perished, Dutch soldiers still have 'bad memories' about these days. The Scandinavians did it much different. They took their Leopard II tanks with them as they formed the Norbat in the surroundings of Tuzla. The story goes that one night the Serbians attacked outposts of Norbat. As their tanks rolled out, close firing came in. The Norbat tanks responded in firing and hit the weapons depot of the Serbians. About 50 soldiers died at once. Norbat was never challenged again. -Dutch Marines had a Mortar-unit on the Mountain Igman, close to Sarajevo. The Unit was well hidden and included a radar unit. The Serbians began shelling the city. The Dutch soldiers immediatly located the place of firing and responded in accurate firing. The Serbians never again bombed Sarajevo. This are just 2 examples of how one must treat an enemy which does not comply to International Rules. I suggest that you look at the series 'Warriors'. It shows British troops in Bosnia and the stupid rules they had to follow. DR and FF: Open your eyes and look around. Think and you will see.

That was a good background GH on the whole awful mess at Srbenica. I wou;ld add though that there should be some more people joining Karadic in The Hague, namely those people who who let the massacre take place by not letting the Dutch troops defend the civilians against those murderous bastard serbs who attacked the town. I would say the political leaders and generals of Nato are equally culpable and should all stand trial because their inaction cost over 8000 lives. When good men do nothing, evil triumphs.

Oh yeah, I know a little bit about the Bosnian-Serbian conflict and Kosovo also wanting their independence. Grasshopper, it's partially because of conflicts like these why I no longer believe in the UN. The UN has failed to prevent many, many wars and has sometimes, like you said, only inflamed the situation further.

I agree with the both of you, Talwyn and F.F... The main problem with the UN is that it's mostly used as a extra piece of external politics, usually by the US, Russia and China. The whole idea about the UN is retarded, since the permanent seats are taken by the 'winners' of the second World War. If the UN would be a stricktly 'clean' political instrument, with an ability to enforce it's will, the story would go different on many occaisions. We see it all too much: wars are used by great nations to increase their power in the world. This goes as far as the participation of the US in the second World War in the European theatre. Think about it: Direct after the second World War, Britain was in dire straits and finding itself no longer the dominating world power. Germany was defeated, as well as the Japanese. Russia and the US could do 'at will' what they wanted to do, there was really no opposition left. The US put the Marshal plan into action to 'save' Europe from the communist influences, and many US companies flourished under this plan. Needless to say that in that era the US 'as a superpower' was firmly established. Whenever the UN would put in a statement that would effect the US in a negative way, they would simply veto it. I hope, F.F, that my background info on Yugoslavia helped you to understand more what was going on in Europe. A sad story.......Bosnia just hadn't oil.

Yeah. I do understand what the US and Britain have been doing to the world, Grasshopper. We're just pretty much powerless to stop it though, unfortunately. Every person nominated for President is pretty much the same.

I agree with you GH, the UN is no longer the body it used to be. The last time it was of ANY use was during the Korean war, and even then that was dubious as it was basically the US vs Russia by proxy. I realise that war is terrible however when you look at the awful stuff that is happenning in Sudan, Zimbabwe, Burma, Somalia to name but a few trouble spots, you would think that the UN, whose mission it is to end conflict would actively get involved. Yet because China & Russia have veto powers on the security council, and France, Britain and the US are reluctant to fight wars where they don't stand to gain anything, then this miserable state of affairs will continue ad infinitum. What is needed is leaders with reall balls who will tell the UN to go fuck itself and especially Russia and China. Those nations are nothing more than paper tigers who if were seriously confronted by an all out attack by the US and NATO, would fall apart in a matter of days. Yes there'd be a possible nuclear exchange but since son of star wars has got the Russian shitting their pants, I think their retalitory capability has been effectively nerfed. It's time to call their bluff :twisted: Mind you, the US needs to pull out of Iraq first, rebvuild its army, institute a draft and fix the ir economy first beofre they can conquer the world. :twisted:

Yes lol I'm not too big with war knowledge, especially on the Serbian, but I do get the Snicker's part. :)

Very Interesting. Being from the US, I remember the conflict, but I was too young to really understand what was happening on the news. The way US news media handled it reminds me of the Russian civil war in Chechnya. From what I know, the situation is different, but it was another bloody conflict that our media has glossed over.

Civil wars never win the 'fair play cup'.